Comments on: Is global economics a zero-sum game? http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/ My name is Chris Yeh. I'm a Harvard MBA, and you can ask me anything! Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:36:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Andrew http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1833 Andrew Mon, 05 Dec 2011 11:21:36 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1833 You have not proved that the economy is not a zero sum game. You use examples exploiting natural resources (blueberries/beetles) which are merely assets that were static moving to the dynamic. The fact that the assets change in ownership (from not owned by a caveman to being owned by a caveman) does not prove that there is an addition to the world economy, it only proves that they entered human ownership. Additionally, your example with the auto makers does not prove that the gains outweigh the losses. What are the ancillary costs to the country of the lost economic value of the UAW workers? In the same simplistic way that you dismiss the idea that the economy is zero sum I ask this: If world trade is not a zero sum game why has the average American wage dropped in value (in inflation adjusted dollars) since Reagan opened the Pandora's Box of supply side economics? Let me be as arrogant as you and answer that it is obvious that the ascending wage of China and India are at a direct cost to American and Western European wages. I do not really say that I am correct, I only say that you have not proved anything. You should go back to school and see if you can learn how to use scientific method or maybe how to do a geometric proof. You have not proved that the economy is not a zero sum game. You use examples exploiting natural resources (blueberries/beetles) which are merely assets that were static moving to the dynamic. The fact that the assets change in ownership (from not owned by a caveman to being owned by a caveman) does not prove that there is an addition to the world economy, it only proves that they entered human ownership.

Additionally, your example with the auto makers does not prove that the gains outweigh the losses. What are the ancillary costs to the country of the lost economic value of the UAW workers?

In the same simplistic way that you dismiss the idea that the economy is zero sum I ask this: If world trade is not a zero sum game why has the average American wage dropped in value (in inflation adjusted dollars) since Reagan opened the Pandora’s Box of supply side economics? Let me be as arrogant as you and answer that it is obvious that the ascending wage of China and India are at a direct cost to American and Western European wages.

I do not really say that I am correct, I only say that you have not proved anything. You should go back to school and see if you can learn how to use scientific method or maybe how to do a geometric proof.

]]> By: Oct. 28 Blessings are not zero-sum http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1804 Oct. 28 Blessings are not zero-sum Tue, 08 Nov 2011 19:32:39 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1804 [...] know zero-sum economics is a fallacy. Lately, I am learning I need to apply that to the rest of [...] […] know zero-sum economics is a fallacy. Lately, I am learning I need to apply that to the rest of […]

]]> By: The Bonfire of the Vanities: protesting sin? | Gen Why Press http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1791 The Bonfire of the Vanities: protesting sin? | Gen Why Press Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:03:37 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1791 [...] However, often success stories are cases where people overcame a hardship. Our economy in not a zero-sum-game. If it was our economy would be the same size for the past 100 years (it isn’t). Most of the [...] […] However, often success stories are cases where people overcame a hardship. Our economy in not a zero-sum-game. If it was our economy would be the same size for the past 100 years (it isn’t). Most of the […]

]]> By: » Rich people aren’t a problem Evan Hempel http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1717 » Rich people aren’t a problem Evan Hempel Sat, 09 Jul 2011 05:19:39 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1717 [...] economy isn’t a zero-sum game – trades only occur when the parties to an exchange each perceive that they will benefit.  This [...] […] economy isn’t a zero-sum game – trades only occur when the parties to an exchange each perceive that they will benefit.  This […]

]]> By: 19 Facts About the American Economic Collapse. - Page 7 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1333 19 Facts About the American Economic Collapse. - Page 7 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:01:15 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-1333 [...] definition also exists, this is what I was referring to: Ask the Harvard MBA Is global economics a zero-sum game? and esp this: Promethean Capitalism Part Thirteen: The Economic Zero-Sum Fallacy Of course I [...] […] definition also exists, this is what I was referring to: Ask the Harvard MBA Is global economics a zero-sum game? and esp this: Promethean Capitalism Part Thirteen: The Economic Zero-Sum Fallacy Of course I […]

]]> By: RJM http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-820 RJM Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:32:51 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-820 Another factor is credit and debt. One way the economy expands is through debt. All of the apparent growth in in the economy, including capital assets is offset by equal and opposite levels of debt (less whatever has been written off). When added together these equal zero. Another factor is credit and debt. One way the economy expands is through debt. All of the apparent growth in in the economy, including capital assets is offset by equal and opposite levels of debt (less whatever has been written off). When added together these equal zero.

]]> By: RJM http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-819 RJM Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:25:13 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-819 IMHO, the economy is a zero-sum game. Ultimately, total profits must equal total losses. Yet the economy does grow. However this is only possible because the losses are eventually written off and are forgotten about. In the example of Thak and Grunt, the blackberries always existed and therefore were always (potentially) part of the economy. Their discovery did not expand the economy. IMHO, the economy is a zero-sum game. Ultimately, total profits must equal total losses. Yet the economy does grow. However this is only possible because the losses are eventually written off and are forgotten about. In the example of Thak and Grunt, the blackberries always existed and therefore were always (potentially) part of the economy. Their discovery did not expand the economy.

]]> By: US 3rd highest rich-poor gap in advanced world - Politics and Other Controversies - Page 9 - City-Data Forum http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-807 US 3rd highest rich-poor gap in advanced world - Politics and Other Controversies - Page 9 - City-Data Forum Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:08:27 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-807 [...] disagree with your zero-sum concept. Here is one Harvard MBA economist on the subject of zero sum. Ask the Harvard MBA ? Is global economics a zero-sum game? Humans make wealth, simply by demanding it. Wealth in an of itself is a human invention. All of [...] […] disagree with your zero-sum concept. Here is one Harvard MBA economist on the subject of zero sum. Ask the Harvard MBA ? Is global economics a zero-sum game? Humans make wealth, simply by demanding it. Wealth in an of itself is a human invention. All of […]

]]> By: US 3rd highest rich-poor gap in advanced world - Politics and Other Controversies - Page 9 - City-Data Forum http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-806 US 3rd highest rich-poor gap in advanced world - Politics and Other Controversies - Page 9 - City-Data Forum Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:39:09 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-806 [...] disagree with your zero-sum concept. Here is one Harvard MBA economist on the subject of zero sum. Ask the Harvard MBA ? Is global economics a zero-sum game? Humans make wealth, simply by demanding it. Wealth in an of itself is a human invention. All of [...] […] disagree with your zero-sum concept. Here is one Harvard MBA economist on the subject of zero sum. Ask the Harvard MBA ? Is global economics a zero-sum game? Humans make wealth, simply by demanding it. Wealth in an of itself is a human invention. All of […]

]]> By: VA http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-733 VA Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:47:02 +0000 http://www.asktheharvardmba.com/2008/05/03/is-global-economics-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-733 "...So now we’ve seen that economics is not a zero-sum game, and that trade brings benefits to both parties." What exactly are these benefits? We should be able to quantify them in some manner. Physics dictates that nature is a zero sum game, so in the case of Thak and Grunt, some benefit is being transferred from natural resources (blueberries and beetles) to themselves. Notice that if the blueberries were not eaten then they would fall to the soil and enrich the soil and give rise to newer blueberry shrubs. By eating the blueberries, Thak has appropriated that benefit for his own survival. Similarly with beetles and Grunt. So the economic growth (benefit) has occurred by transferring some natural resources for human survival. Ultimately, survival is the only real benefit. Even a luxury is a means to prolong ones life even though it's very inefficient at doing so... “…So now we’ve seen that economics is not a zero-sum game, and that trade brings benefits to both parties.”

What exactly are these benefits? We should be able to quantify them in some manner. Physics dictates that nature is a zero sum game, so in the case of Thak and Grunt, some benefit is being transferred from natural resources (blueberries and beetles) to themselves.
Notice that if the blueberries were not eaten then they would fall to the soil and enrich the soil and give rise to newer blueberry shrubs. By eating the blueberries, Thak has appropriated that benefit for his own survival. Similarly with beetles and Grunt.

So the economic growth (benefit) has occurred by transferring some natural resources for human survival.

Ultimately, survival is the only real benefit. Even a luxury is a means to prolong ones life even though it’s very inefficient at doing so…

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